PES2013 NEWS, DISCUSSION, VIDEOS & SCREENS (Part 3)

[thombhoy]

Just my opinion mate, i'm not a programmer so i don't know how it works, if you do then please enlighten me

Nope, I don't have a clue how it all works. It's just the statement of manual control being even somewhat stat based doesn't make any sense to me, because if it's in any way stat based then surely it can't be manual. Only feeling like you're in control of passing. Which is what PES 2011 had.

On the subject of manual controls though, in my opinion, Fifa's manual is a broken mess. Granted I don't play on manual and I haven't practiced it much but again isn't the point of manual being that the ball goes where you are aiming on the pad ? So why in Fifa does the ball go everywhere but where I'm aiming in Fifa's manual? That also doesn't make any sense.

No probs mate


I dont play fifa so i can't really comment on fifa's manual controlls, but i'd be very happy to go with pes 2011s passing system, that was stat based and was very good
in my opinion

[Shevar]

I know I will say something controversial, but here goes: I don't want manual anything.

For PES to become a true Foote-Sim it needs to be semi-assisted. You determine the direction, height and power and that's where your input ends. It should than be processed through player stats and that should result in the pass being send in a specific way. Same for shooting.

We all speak about player individuality being a key feature, perhaps the key feature of PES, but having manual passing and shooting negates the very essence of individuality of a player.

I want my passes going array when I play with VVV-Venlo, and I want them to connect 80% of the time when I'm playing with AJAX or 99,9999999% with Barcelona. The skill of the on field players should determine the way you play the game, not manual input for that would negate player skill and it becomes to unrealistic.

Just my humble opinion of course, be free to disagree

I totally agree with you.
I also hear what you guys are saying about the manual shooting, but doesn't that kill the individuality of the player. I think it should be semi assisted, in that the players with better stats should be more on target and you pick the direction and power of the shot. That way its the best of both worlds. (just make the shooting look realistic and with some punch please konami)

Just one thing to say. This is a game. The goal of a game, even a simulation, is to give you control over your actions. What's the point in playing if you want to do a thing, give a certain imput to do it, and then the game **** it up?
Stats must be there, but if i give the imput to pass in a certain point, even with a less skilled player the ball should go around that point, even if not 100% precise due to low stats. Same goes for shooting. If i give the imput to shoot in the top right corner, even with a less skilled player the shot, in normal conditions, should go around that point.
And should not be random, but always consistent to player position, conditions, excetera...so that the player must be able, like in old pes games, to compensate, to a certain degree, for the lack of stats of his players, by adapting the input, trying to place them in better positions for shooting, or making them perform only easy passes. Which force you to change your strategy and way of playing accordingly to the players and team you are using.

I don't want a semi-auto random thing like in pes 2012, where you want to do a thing, but the game takes it and change your imput completely. That's not a game.

One word: control. You can adapt a 360 degrees passing system to stats to obtain the same result as old ps games.

I know control is important, but for the sake of realism I'm willing to let loose of a little bit of control.

Imagine the following: Your playing Master League, but your midfield ***** because you got like B- midfielders. Finally enough money to buy that star midfielder that is like an A+ passer and suddenly things start to click.

I don't think if you play fully manual you can get those situations. I would totally love it that you really feel the difference between team and player quality on the field when you play, and for me semi-assisted could and should offer that experience. It makes it aggravating when a pass goes astray because of lack of player skill, but you can feel more empowered when you get those good players, or your youth players get to that level where you can Ace your passes and your shots.

[gu3rr3ir0]

Also i remember in older PES when i used to sign martins for my ML team, so so fast but horrible in front of goal, always a toss up whether or not to play him because his finishing was so poor even though he was always getting into good positions. I want that to happen again.

Oohhh the beloved Martins, he was like flash running but the like Hulk shooting loool, i think they put bricks instead of foots in that player, but it´s a great joy to create so much opportunities and then shoot really wide, or to the clouds like it happened all the time, exception made when he´s with red arrow...

[nobleknight91]

@Bravez Mate if you want to know what manual will be in PES2013 ,just use the modifier to pass the ball.

On the same subject I think that individuality in passing is lost since PES introduced the new system in PES2011.Don't get me wrong ,I need freedom but also every player became the same.In PES2012 ,they tried to introduce some individuality in passing which made the passing inconsistent.

I don't know that much but I think it's konami's wrong balance between individuality and freedom.It's really hard to keep the balance right between user input ,player individuality and outcome.That's where both games PES and FIFA still haven't got it right.PES will suffer more by having 5 different assistance levels.

It's really hard enough for us the fans to choose between freedom and individuality because at moment we haven't seen both together in the right way.

[DubVader]

Just reads this quote from Jon MUrphy's twitter

#PES2013Brazil Santos put 8 past the worst keeper I've ever seen! #FB http://pic.twitter.com/INLbUV1e



Thank the lord he is talking about a live match and not PES13 in motion

[Bravez]

@Bravez Mate if you want to know what manual will be in PES2013 ,just use the modifier to pass the ball.

I always forget about this

[nobleknight91]

@Bravez Mate if you want to know what manual will be in PES2013 ,just use the modifier to pass the ball.

I always forget about this

I know because it's pointless to use a modifier to just make a pass

[thombhoy]

@Bravez Mate if you want to know what manual will be in PES2013 ,just use the modifier to pass the ball.

I always forget about this

Me too

[pando]

I know control is important, but for the sake of realism I'm willing to let loose of a little bit of control.

Imagine the following: Your playing Master League, but your midfield ***** because you got like B- midfielders. Finally enough money to buy that star midfielder that is like an A+ passer and suddenly things start to click.

I don't think if you play fully manual you can get those situations. I would totally love it that you really feel the difference between team and player quality on the field when you play, and for me semi-assisted could and should offer that experience. It makes it aggravating when a pass goes astray because of lack of player skill, but you can feel more empowered when you get those good players, or your youth players get to that level where you can Ace your passes and your shots.

You feel more enpowered but you don't feel like it's your success. It's not rewarding. Wheni score in pes 2012 it's not rewarding. Building the action is rewarding due to the very good AI and midfield. Scoring is not. Cause i feel like it's more a success ofthe player than mine. Whe i shoot with the semi-auto of PES 2012 i want to shoot in a certain position ad the ball go elsewhere.
In old pes games you felt the difference between good and bad plyers, but you didn't lose a bit of control.
It's just a matter of replicating that system while giving more freedom to place the ball wherever i want.

If i pass, for example, in a empty area, it should work this way:

-with a poor skilled player the ball 80% of the times don't go in the exact spot i wanted, but in any other point inside the 1 square meter around the exact spot, plus the ball will bounce more and be more difficult to control for the receiver.

- with a more skilled player, the ball will go 80% of the times in the exact spot i wanted and bounce less/ be easier to conrol for the receiver.

The fact is, the outcome should always be consistent to the output, while, with poor skilled plyers, being less and less precise in the area i aimed to.

Same goes for shooting. If i aim t top left corner, even with a poor skilled player the ball should go around that area.

Only situation were the result is fully fucked up (meaning a shot or a pass going completely out of target) should be when you have a poor skilled player AND you fail in giving the right imput, or if you have a poor skilled player in a very bad position or situation, or a full combination of all these factors. That's the right balance between control and stats. This way, considering player stats, position, situation and you imput, you can always guess what the output will be. If in a game you can't guess what will be the outcome of your actions, then better go play football manager were you have no control over players.

A system that can completely change the output, based only on stats, or mainly on stats, is unbalanced.

[gu3rr3ir0]

Who wants full manual like FIFA, should play FIFA and not PES. What’s the purpose of Master League off and Online? Isn´t it to create a team based on your playing style, choosing players with different characteristic to adapt to your strategy? I think it is.

What the point in having all full manual where your input is all that matters and stats are abolished? You will in a short time have teams full of Strong and fast players, because thats the only stats that would care.

What’s the point in having iniesta or Xavi those little players, that are not to strong but compensate with technique and absolute accuracy, i´d rather have busquets, and Mikel and Javi garcia, has they have the same speed, but are tall and strong, and because the rest of the stats won´t matter than i will be able to pass like Xavi,and shoot like ronaldo, making all the other stats redundant...

Like many people said already, they should bring the balance that existed in older PES games like 5 or 6, that was just right, and despite being on rails sometimes, i tend to feel more free playing that games than this bad scripted ones of this GEN, 2012 its the worst regard scripting, and shooting compared to older GEN.

[pando]

@Bravez Mate if you want to know what manual will be in PES2013 ,just use the modifier to pass the ball.

On the same subject I think that individuality in passing is lost since PES introduced the new system in PES2011.Don't get me wrong ,I need freedom but also every player became the same.In PES2012 ,they tried to introduce some individuality in passing which made the passing inconsistent.

I don't know that much but I think it's konami's wrong balance between individuality and freedom.It's really hard to keep the balance right between user input ,player individuality and outcome.That's where both games PES and FIFA still haven't got it right.PES will suffer more by having 5 different assistance levels.

It's really hard enough for us the fans to choose between freedom and individuality because at moment we haven't seen both together in the right way.

In PES 2012 it felt inconsistent cause the imput was changed too much. The point is, you may have no full control about the outcome, passes and shots can still fail, BUT the outcome should always reflect at least 70% your imput. With 30% stats influence there's plenty of room for individuality and variety.
In old pes games you didn't have full control over the outcome. Less skilled players still failed many shots. But if i put them in good position, i knew they got more chances of scoring. If i aimed for the top left corner, the ball could go out, but always around the area i aimed to.

In pes 2012, if i aim top left corner + medium power with a poor skilled player, the shoot goes too central.
Plus, no matter the imput, shots are always auto-aimed at the door. I can give full power and full left imput with a poor skilled player, the ball will go slightly out to the left.

The key is consistency. The output should always be consistent to the imput. Else, it's not a game but a random thing.

[Bravez]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/konami-l ... rge/095927

This could be great news for PES with the ex PES bod moving upstairs in Konami. Obviously we won't see the benefits until next gen but interesting nonetheless.

[Nene_]

I know I will say something controversial, but here goes: I don't want manual anything.

For PES to become a true Foote-Sim it needs to be semi-assisted. You determine the direction, height and power and that's where your input ends. It should than be processed through player stats and that should result in the pass being send in a specific way. Same for shooting.

We all speak about player individuality being a key feature, perhaps the key feature of PES, but having manual passing and shooting negates the very essence of individuality of a player.

I want my passes going array when I play with VVV-Venlo, and I want them to connect 80% of the time when I'm playing with AJAX or 99,9999999% with Barcelona. The skill of the on field players should determine the way you play the game, not manual input for that would negate player skill and it becomes to unrealistic.

Just my humble opinion of course, be free to disagree

I understand you. While I'm not exactly sure how manual will work without it being all down to the input of the user, if it's the case that individuality indeed gets lost we do have a choice whether we want to use manual or not.

As long as the passing, shooting and crossing is less restricted than PES 2012 I won't see the need to use manual.

[kain_acmilan]

Just reads this quote from Jon MUrphy's twitter

#PES2013Brazil Santos put 8 past the worst keeper I've ever seen! #FB http://pic.twitter.com/INLbUV1e



Thank the lord he is talking about a live match and not PES13 in motion

Imagine being able to do the Ganso's first goal or the Neymar flick in PES, those moves are over the top, but should at least have extremely rare occurrence in the game.

[thombhoy]

I know I will say something controversial, but here goes: I don't want manual anything.

For PES to become a true Foote-Sim it needs to be semi-assisted. You determine the direction, height and power and that's where your input ends. It should than be processed through player stats and that should result in the pass being send in a specific way. Same for shooting.

We all speak about player individuality being a key feature, perhaps the key feature of PES, but having manual passing and shooting negates the very essence of individuality of a player.

I want my passes going array when I play with VVV-Venlo, and I want them to connect 80% of the time when I'm playing with AJAX or 99,9999999% with Barcelona. The skill of the on field players should determine the way you play the game, not manual input for that would negate player skill and it becomes to unrealistic.

Just my humble opinion of course, be free to disagree

I understand you. While I'm not exactly sure how manual will work without it being all down to the input of the user, if it's the case that individuality indeed gets lost we do have a choice whether we want to use manual or not.

As long as the passing, shooting and crossing is less restricted than PES 2012 I won't see the need to use manual.

I think thats the most important thing about manual controls, they're not just gonna lump us with them, we'll all be able to choose for ourselves whether we want to use them or not

[Silverstone]

Who wants full manual like FIFA, should play FIFA and not PES. What’s the purpose of Master League off and Online? Isn´t it to create a team based on your playing style, choosing players with different characteristic to adapt to your strategy? I think it is.

What the point in having all full manual where your input is all that matters and stats are abolished? You will in a short time have teams full of Strong and fast players, because thats the only stats that would care.

What’s the point in having iniesta or Xavi those little players, that are not to strong but compensate with technique and absolute accuracy, i´d rather have busquets, and Mikel and Javi garcia, has they have the same speed, but are tall and strong, and because the rest of the stats won´t matter than i will be able to pass like Xavi,and shoot like ronaldo, making all the other stats redundant...

Like many people said already, they should bring the balance that existed in older PES games like 5 or 6, that was just right, and despite being on rails sometimes, i tend to feel more free playing that games than this bad scripted ones of this GEN, 2012 its the worst regard scripting, and shooting compared to older GEN.

I don't see why manual gameplay, player stats and individuality can't all exist in the same game. In fact I think stats can play a greater role in individuality in a game that's freed up more.

[gu3rr3ir0]

I don't see why manual gameplay, player stats and individuality can't all exist in the same game. In fact I think stats can play a greater role in individuality in a game that's freed up more.

Y think you did not understand me well. If you read my posts back there, I have said I want a more free game, but not “manual”. People here tend to say manual, but the meaning of “manual” does not match with PES philosophy at all if you know what I mean, so it does not match with stats.

A manual game it´s like FIFA, that is manual. Now one thing is to have that kind of manual, other thing it´s to have a game that it´s more free, and don´t randomly change the input you give, like the shooting in PES 2012. If all of us want something more like PES 5 and 6 but with more freedom of movement ( 360 ), Konami as to focus on stats, and consistency of actions.

The freedom of movement we already have in PES 2012, and if they remove the scripting that force you to use all the time super cancel ( it has been said that you have no longer to use it at all ), and make the shooting and passing with the consistency of PES 5 and 6, but with the freedom that this GEN of consoles allow, than we will be in heaven.

If you think well, once an input is influenced by STATS like accuracy, or Power or wathever stat, it´s not manual anymore.

All I and for the posts I have read from you and from many others, want, it´s a game that respects, our input consistently but that have the factor stats attached to it. You choose right the ball goes right, you choose left the ball goes left, you fill 1/3 of the bar, and the shoot goes medium low, 2/3 medium high, but if its right on the spot you choose, and with the right power you gave it will depend on balance of the player, position, and shoot and accuracy stats

[jameslv1986]

Who wants full manual like FIFA, should play FIFA and not PES. What’s the purpose of Master League off and Online? Isn´t it to create a team based on your playing style, choosing players with different characteristic to adapt to your strategy? I think it is.

What the point in having all full manual where your input is all that matters and stats are abolished? You will in a short time have teams full of Strong and fast players, because thats the only stats that would care.

What’s the point in having iniesta or Xavi those little players, that are not to strong but compensate with technique and absolute accuracy, i´d rather have busquets, and Mikel and Javi garcia, has they have the same speed, but are tall and strong, and because the rest of the stats won´t matter than i will be able to pass like Xavi,and shoot like ronaldo, making all the other stats redundant...

Like many people said already, they should bring the balance that existed in older PES games like 5 or 6, that was just right, and despite being on rails sometimes, i tend to feel more free playing that games than this bad scripted ones of this GEN, 2012 its the worst regard scripting, and shooting compared to older GEN.

I don't see why manual gameplay, player stats and individuality can't all exist in the same game. In fact I think stats can play a greater role in individuality in a game that's freed up more.

I agree, NBA2k12 is the best example. I feel completely in control and am not fighting with the controls. And the individuality is on another level. PES's manual will be nothing like FIFA's manual. I think they would never risk loosing the individuality in the game.

I'm intrigued by Player ID, I'm looking forward to the details

[Bravez]

Who wants full manual like FIFA, should play FIFA and not PES. What’s the purpose of Master League off and Online? Isn´t it to create a team based on your playing style, choosing players with different characteristic to adapt to your strategy? I think it is.

What the point in having all full manual where your input is all that matters and stats are abolished? You will in a short time have teams full of Strong and fast players, because thats the only stats that would care.

What’s the point in having iniesta or Xavi those little players, that are not to strong but compensate with technique and absolute accuracy, i´d rather have busquets, and Mikel and Javi garcia, has they have the same speed, but are tall and strong, and because the rest of the stats won´t matter than i will be able to pass like Xavi,and shoot like ronaldo, making all the other stats redundant...

Like many people said already, they should bring the balance that existed in older PES games like 5 or 6, that was just right, and despite being on rails sometimes, i tend to feel more free playing that games than this bad scripted ones of this GEN, 2012 its the worst regard scripting, and shooting compared to older GEN.

I don't see why manual gameplay, player stats and individuality can't all exist in the same game. In fact I think stats can play a greater role in individuality in a game that's freed up more.

I agree, NBA2k12 is the best example. I feel completely in control and am not fighting with the controls. And the individuality is on another level. PES's manual will be nothing like FIFA's manual. I think they would never risk loosing the individuality in the game.

I'm intrigued by Player ID, I'm looking forward to the details

Whilst NBA 2k games are unbelievable, there isn't any sort of manual controls so not really a good example. Letting go on the stick at the top point isn't really complicated, no need to control power or direction. Same with passing.

[kasperhansen92]

The manual modifier is annoying.

But i think and hope that pes 13 will feature a control scheme like fifa, where you pick what assistance for what type of shot. But my god full assist shouldnt be allowed online at all. It makes a realistic game, seem unreal and arcade like.