PES2012 NEWS, DISCUSSION, VIDEOS & SCREENS (Part 47)

[Silverstone]

Is it possible to give Georgious Samaras a beard in edit mode?

Whenever I go to edit his features his face changes altogether to somebody different? I can add a beard to that face but big Sams face is gone? Weird

That reminds me. Not the most important thing for sure, but regarding editing, PES needs proper bushy beards. The David De Gea bum-fluff beards ain't cuttin' it.

[greyfoxmgs]

That is not really a reason to get rid of them and more a case of them just needing to make them better.

Danny is right, the tricks are not really over the top in PES at all. The lift-ball trick for example is hardly a model example of exuberance - it is actually a rather fine method of not only beating a man but setting up a shot.

The thing PES does and always has got right in my opinion is that it understands that tricks are skills, which you can add to your arsenal should you wish to try and master them, they are not a requirement and as such don't need getting rid of, only made more fluid in terms of look and response.... all dependant on which player is performing them.

I agree, tricks is part of football and it should be there. It should be all player dependent and it is up to individual to use them. Each person have their own play style and a good football game should have all these essential elements to suit their needs. That is what I call freedom of play.

[DubVader]

.

Bolded is on the money. We should be able to completely control the player under our selection, that includes dancing and showboating.

You reminded me of an R2 thing I still use till this day. Simply hitting R2 to stop my player then waiting for my opponent to try and tackle only to step to the left or right and burst by him was one of my favorites. Also, hitting SQUARE+X immediately followed by O+X would result in two step fake shot (or fake shot then fake cross) that allowed my to maze throe two players when done right.

Ah, the good old simple days.

so busy at work today mate, but reading all the above made me think of the good ol' days

[Bravez]

Let my try to clarify my stance. Tricks can be there, but I don't want them to be a go to tool when winning a one on one is in question, because how often do you see a player do a rainbow flick over the last defender or some other commercial skill? They will rather choose to catch them on the wrong foot, get them off balance and they do that by simply using shoulder feints and quick changes of direction. Quality defenders can still track them though.

That being said, let them polish those tricks but make them about skills, not a Tekken like button combo you pull of to finish a guy off. Even if they polish them to that subtle presence degree, I still want the simpler solution to be even more effective becausu it's the one most players resort to in a situation like that. As dumb as some of them are, they're smart enough to know that catching the opponent off balance is better then going Raiden on their arse.

What bugs me the most is that something as useful as off the ball player control is so tricky to pull off with the whole press right analogue when it could simply be push toward desired player and control. Instead, feints which are less of a priority than team work get the easy approach while the off the ball controls get messy.

I say again, it might be my crappy controller that literally requires one hell of a press on the analogue stick, but I've experienced the same playing on PS controller. It's to rugged for something that should be effortless.

I think our view of "tricks" is different. i certainly don't want a rainbow flick in the game, is ridiculous and almost never used in a real game. I can only think of okocha doing it in recent memory.

When talking about tricks, i'm including shoulder feints and subtle movements to off balance a defender or draw a challenge. i don't want fanciful rainbow flicks or hocus pocus style skills like in fifa.

One thing i would like to see a bit more of, although it would need to be implemented very well and not overdone, is flicks for flair players. I know it's there at the moment but it's a rarity and someone like CR7 will often play a 1-2 with a flick rather than standard pass. The only issue is if it becomes common place and there should also be several animations for it so it seems fresh when it happens. Also it has to be contextual of course!

[DubVader]

I think everyone is in agreement on link feints - GET RID!!

here here

[MichaelBroadhead_]

Let my try to clarify my stance. Tricks can be there, but I don't want them to be a go to tool when winning a one on one is in question, because how often do you see a player do a rainbow flick over the last defender or some other commercial skill? They will rather choose to catch them on the wrong foot, get them off balance and they do that by simply using shoulder feints and quick changes of direction. Quality defenders can still track them though.

That being said, let them polish those tricks but make them about skills, not a Tekken like button combo you pull of to finish a guy off. Even if they polish them to that subtle presence degree, I still want the simpler solution to be even more effective becausu it's the one most players resort to in a situation like that. As dumb as some of them are, they're smart enough to know that catching the opponent off balance is better then going Raiden on their arse.

What bugs me the most is that something as useful as off the ball player control is so tricky to pull off with the whole press right analogue when it could simply be push toward desired player and control. Instead, feints which are less of a priority than team work get the easy approach while the off the ball controls get messy.

I say again, it might be my crappy controller that literally requires one hell of a press on the analogue stick, but I've experienced the same playing on PS controller. It's to rugged for something that should be effortless.

I think our view of "tricks" is different. i certainly don't want a rainbow flick in the game, is ridiculous and almost never used in a real game. I can only think of okocha doing it in recent memory.

When talking about tricks, i'm including shoulder feints and subtle movements to off balance a defender or draw a challenge. i don't want fanciful rainbow flicks or hocus pocus style skills like in fifa.

One thing i would like to see a bit more of, although it would need to be implemented very well and not overdone, is flicks for flair players. I know it's there at the moment but it's a rarity and someone like CR7 will often play a 1-2 with a flick rather than standard pass. The only issue is if it becomes common place and there should also be several animations for it so it seems fresh when it happens. Also it has to be contextual of course!

Yeah man spot on, that was my point. & @Alan I agree with you, I didn't mean take them our of PES because some of them aren't completely fluid, that was just an extra point I thought would be relevant.

Thinking about moves to please the fans, leaving the tricks in there would be better than taking them out completely, just personally, I never use them and barely ever will. Use the Ronaldo chop a bit because I LOVE that & it is actually a great technique to use in football, but in PES they absolutely smash it inwards, too far, and do a weird leg animations. Doesn't have the effect it has in real life.

[DubVader]

I can see my link feints problem has created a bit of a stir, personally I still think the current system cannot be refined and is too gimmicky, long gone are the days of having to actually learn tricks , they feel cheapened and too easy to perform.

I will always be in the camp that the old system was best, no matter how much refinement and gloss can be added to the new system it just makes it too easy.


What Grimm said about the shooting of PES 2012 was pretty cool not having full control or making it so hard to do you would be worried to pull it off unless you sit in training. At the moment it feels each player has a temporary forcefield while performing the trick which again feels wrong.


peace all, back to sales strategies yaaaaaawn.

[Grimm]

I think our view of "tricks" is different. i certainly don't want a rainbow flick in the game, is ridiculous and almost never used in a real game. I can only think of okocha doing it in recent memory.

Let's define them in the parameters of this thread.

Feint - simple everyday football things, shoulder feints, using ones body language to throw the opponent off balance and gain the upper hand.

Trick - doing ridiculous flicks and tricks such as those rainbow flicks or some over the top thing that only a select few attention hogs do to get an applause.

Feints I have nothing against. New first touch emphasis and simple body movement feints should allows us to catch players off balance or on the wrong foot and give us few meters of head starts for a shot on goal or a cross. Granted, if catching players off balance is done right or at all.

Someone said earlier that catch up bug is not there, and it's not in it's old form. But sometimes pulling off a perfect direction change when trapping the ball doesn't gain you the upper hand because opponents still manages to track you even though you should realistically be away from him.

Fingers crossed for this.

i don't want fanciful rainbow flicks or hocus pocus style skills like in fifa.

My biggest fear is exactly this.

One thing i would like to see a bit more of, although it would need to be implemented very well and not overdone, is flicks for flair players. I know it's there at the moment but it's a rarity and someone like CR7 will often play a 1-2 with a flick rather than standard pass. The only issue is if it becomes common place and there should also be several animations for it so it seems fresh when it happens. Also it has to be contextual of course!

As long as the pass gets where I want to send it, he can pass with his CENSORED for all I care.

At the moment it feels each player has a temporary forcefield while performing the trick which again feels wrong.

Bulls eye. If the defenders are not drawn into the whole trick animation and can keep reacting to the ball or simply fall back (as I do when someone goes Blakc Swan on me), they can use all the tricks they want. I just don't want to see shields anywhere on the pitch for what ever action.

Even GK's should be able to be pushed during corners, but the ref might or might not call a foul. We should be able to get ahead of players waiting for a throw in just like AI is given the chance to do to us. We should be able to move inside the ten yard radius during free kicks only to have the ref warn us to get back (push it and get booked).

We should be allowed to do things and suffer the consequences of those actions like real players do instead of simply having an invisible barrier. This is why I want Alan's continuous play to be introduced. If you flood the opponents half and there is no FADE OUT when the ball goes out of play, you have to manually return back to defensive position which leaves you vulnerable.

This alone might not be a barrier, but would make you think about omitting bodies up front.

[DubVader]

Even GK's should be able to be pushed during corners, but the ref might or might not call a foul. We should be able to get ahead of players waiting for a throw in just like AI is given the chance to do to us. We should be able to move inside the ten yard radius during free kicks only to have the ref warn us to get back (push it and get booked).

We should be allowed to do things and suffer the consequences of those actions like real players do instead of simply having an invisible barrier. This is why I want Alan's continuous play to be introduced. If you flood the opponents half and there is no FADE OUT when the ball goes out of play, you have to manually return back to defensive position which leaves you vulnerable.

This alone might not be a barrier, but would make you think about omitting bodies up front.

this would be so neat if we could have these concepts above, I'm nowhere near as technical as you mate, do you even think this is possible in the realms of footie games next gen. A fully moving, true organic football title I can imagine this is the holy grail for dev's and very hard to accomplish, but who am I to make such a statement.

[DubVader]

Personally, I'd be disappointed if they remove the tricks. It's not like they're too exuberant in PES (obvious exception being the rainbow flick) and can provide an extra piece of room for a shot or whatever, just like in real life.

Its not that we want the tricks removed, it's just that many feel the new system cheapens the game and allows any player in the game to perform a trick. This IMO is so unrealistic as it feels you have an invisible forcefield around the player for that time, the old system was intuitive and forced you to learn and master such moves rather than lazily assign and perform with any player at random.
Again I feel this has chepeaned pes for the hardcore and alienated a part of their audience, and allowed anyone to lazily incorporate this as part of their game..the old method was best



right im off to the chippy and then home.

[Grimm]

this would be so neat if we could have these concepts above, I'm nowhere near as technical as you mate, do you even think this is possible in the realms of footie games next gen. A fully moving, true organic football title I can imagine this is the holy grail for dev's and very hard to accomplish, but who am I to make such a statement.

I'm no skilled programer so I'm not really that technical. I do believe these concepts can find their way in PES but they would require a whole lot more then just tweaking the existing base.

Maybe not. Can't say for sure other then I'd love to see those mini-games we watch in every football match find their way in PES.

[danny275]

Its not that we want the tricks removed, it's just that many feel the new system cheapens the game and allows any player in the game to perform a trick.

There were few posts that said they'd be happy with the removal of tricks from the game. That's what I was responding to

This IMO is so unrealistic as it feels you have an invisible forcefield around the player for that time, the old system was intuitive and forced you to learn and master such moves rather than lazily assign and perform with any player at random.

I haven't said they should remain in their current guise and as such don't disagree

[_anderson]

Linked feints system should go, I agree with that. About the tricks themselves, they are part of football and I want them in the game, lots of them. I still wont use them 99% of the time, but it's nice to know they're there. Just make sure they're hard to perform and it's all good.

EDIT: Oh, and of course, contextual to the quality of the player.

[bigol]

Linked feints system should go, I agree with that. About the tricks themselves, they are part of football and I want them in the game, lots of them. I still wont use them 99% of the time, but it's nice to know they're there. Just make sure they're hard to perform and it's all good.

EDIT: Oh, and of course, contextual to the quality of the player.

Completely agree. Linked feints system should go

[Silverstone]

Linked feints system should go, I agree with that. About the tricks themselves, they are part of football and I want them in the game, lots of them. I still wont use them 99% of the time, but it's nice to know they're there. Just make sure they're hard to perform and it's all good.

EDIT: Oh, and of course, contextual to the quality of the player.

Completely agree. Linked feints system should go

"Linked" feints don't make sense to me but I like the option the system provides of being able to assign four single feint moves to four stick directions. Four feints is all I really need, or can remember in my arsenal.

[jameslv1986]

PES 2013 really seems to be shaping up well. 2 of the main reasons I go back to PES 5/6 is the R2 dribbling and R2 shooting. Great to hear Konami are working on both of those aspects.

Like Bravez, I dream of scoring Ashely Young type curlers in PES

[Jeronimoe]

What do you guys think of FIFA's trick system. Having different levels, you know 1,2,3,4, with 5 being the best. Also they fluity and ease of perfroming them but the difficulty increases the high you are in number.
But the biggest thing is how they map the moves and how they transition well.

[TheBroad]

Tricks shouldn't be removed all together - there is no reason to take a real life element and take it out.
Refine them, no need to take them out.

I'm not a user of tricks, but they definitely should stay.

[MichaelBroadhead_]

PES 2013 really seems to be shaping up well. 2 of the main reasons I go back to PES 5/6 is the R2 dribbling and R2 shooting. Great to hear Konami are working on both of those aspects.

Like Bravez, I dream of scoring Ashely Young type curlers in PES

A lot of people say that but personally I didn't know R2 shooting even existed in PES until 2011

Or R2 dribbling, still not sure what that even did..

[_anderson]

PES 2013 really seems to be shaping up well. 2 of the main reasons I go back to PES 5/6 is the R2 dribbling and R2 shooting. Great to hear Konami are working on both of those aspects.

Like Bravez, I dream of scoring Ashely Young type curlers in PES

A lot of people say that but personally I didn't know R2 shooting even existed in PES until 2011

Or R2 dribbling, still not sure what that even did..

Ah man, that's poor So you played PES 5/6 and never used R2 shooting? And you don't notice any differences with R2 dribbling?