Bendit wrote:I have been playing the PC demo non-stop with all the wicked mods already out. It's been great, apart from the response time issues frustrating me here and there.
But today I stumbled across a strange 'fix' on my system for most of the response time issues. How do I know it is 'fixed' and not my imagination? Well now I can control the ball about as well as PES 2009, especially noticeable near the sidelines and when being closed down with the ball. I no longer have to think two seconds ahead as I had to before with PES 2010.
So what happened?
PES 2008 and 2009 were very strange on the PC, in that the game speed seemed tied to the monitor refresh rate. I use an nice old CRT monitor and playing above 60hz made the game way too fast. It drove me a bit nuts using a flickering CRT @ 60HZ, but I got used to it in the end.
When I first played the PES 2010 demo I just assumed the problem would be the same. In any case the game defaults to 60Hz refresh rate, whatever resolution was selected. However just today I decided to use a third party program to force the refresh rate of the monitor to the maximum that the resolution supported.
First I tried 1600x1200 @ 72Hz instead of 60Hz. Wow. Response times were quite a bit better! At first I thought maybe the whole game was running faster, as it would have at the 72Hz refresh rate with PES 2008/2009. To test that theory I changed resolution to 1152x864 @ 100Hz. But voila, the game speed remained the same. Only the response times were still much better than at 60Hz!
Don't ask me why this worked for me. But this has made a big enough difference for me to make PES 2010 a whole different game. I was already enjoying it before, but now the game is awesome!
Obviously what I did may not help everyone with problems, since all our systems are different. But if you try these settings and notice a difference then let us others know here!
System : Windows XP, Nvidia 9600GT card, Drivers 190.62, CRT monitor.
BTW I used the free program called 'RefreshForce' (164KB) to force the refresh rate to the maximum the resolution supported.
If you have Windows XP, an Nvidia card and a CRT monitor I think it's REALLY worth trying. Believe me, if it works for you, you will notice a big difference immediately. I have played dozens of hours of the demo already before this, and a couple since, so I know there has been a big change.
As for this method working with LCD monitors, ATI cards and other Windows versions, I just don't know because I don't have them myself to test. But if others post their setups and results we can get a better idea. But on another forum, at least one other person has already confirmed to me big changes on their own system.
Sorry dude but that's not the solution for several reasons.
The problem is this...
Bosh Factory wrote:This makes me think that there may be two response issues in effect:
1) Konami's 'intended' response delay whereby a player won't kick the ball until it's at his feet and the previous action's animation has been completed. Only Konami can change this.
So indeed only Konami can fix the response issue, and I certainly hope they did. Even the winning eleven demo had response issues, though better but still...
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The actions and movements of the players are like freezed and delayed. The response of the players are also delayed, when I try to switch direction or pass, it's delayed like for 2 seconds and it's simply not following my commands IMMEDIATELY. When I pass or shoot, the ball just moves extremely SLOW. Even if I shoot with Gerrard with full condition, I am still seeing the ball moving slowly. Also, the players are just running too slow, like they are just jogging for leisure.
We all enjoy fast-flowing football with lots of actions (something like PES2007 or PES6 is perfect; I want to see the ball flying like a rocket when I shoot with Gerrard or R. Carlos just like in real life, and I want to feel the SPEED of Ronaldo or Henry). Please speed up the pace of the game to make it more realistic. Come on, it's a 10 min game, not 90 min, so it makes sense even to make the pace faster.
Also, another serious problem about pes2010. When I make a through pass to my teamate, the teamate that is supposed to be receiving the ball just STANDS there. This is just absolutely ridiculous. When is it ever going to happen like that in real life? The player receiving the ball should be running towards the ball automatically, not standing like a statue.
Hopefully, KONAMI will fix those serious problems before the actual game is out. It will be very much appreciated! Otherwise, I'm very disappointed with pes2010...
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~Players should move slower when RB is not pressed. It's just too easy to run into defenders. I'm all for passing and I don't make any unnecessary dribble. But if even Xavi would make a touch (without RB pressed) 3 meters away and right into the opposition defender, that's ridiculous...
~Please, more pace on through balls. The pace of the through ball seems proportional to the level of suppression the passer is in. That's not realistic. If Xavi is not under pressure, he is supposed to be able to put a decent ball through, not a feeble one that defenders need to even come FORWARD to pick up.
~The passing is unresponsive and innacurate, often missing players altogether or falling short entirely. 1-2's seem almost impossible to do in this version, as not only do the players forget to run half the time, the first pass is usually so slow as to ruin the move entirely.
The shooting is godawful. First time shots are a rarity as often even if you setup a player inside the box they'll neglect to shoot no matter how early you press the button until they've had a touch. Shooting whilst running is off aswell, the shot bar rises too quickly and it's difficult to control the shots with even the best of players.
Dribbling... Gah. They've removed the shot fake and replaced it with some sort of half crouch half let the ball travel 2 yards away from you sort of thing. No idea why. Running is weird, and the 360 degree movement seems flawed, I've often ran it out because although I move the stick all the way to the right or left, the player needs to arbitrarily follow through the angle rather than just go where I've told him, and so he sprints the ball out.
I just despair at how dissapointed I am with this demo. I want to like it, I really do! But I just find it awful to play.
Hopefully it will get better in the full version.
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Theres like that split second lag when a player gets the ball and passes it off, you have to time 1 touch passings very early, not like in older games.
For instance, i got bored and busted out my WE8 aka PES 4. I had loads of fun playing it, and i still am more so than this demo. It just had that 'fun' ability about it, that made me fall inlove with the WE/PES series. Although some things werent as realsitic as it is now, it just... i dunno.... was so hard, and still is to put down the controller.
I dont get that feeling from this demo, and i am scared that i wont either from the new game. I used to have that for PES 4, 5, and 6. The last two with the online gaming and offline play also.
But PES 2008, 09' not so much, it was fun, and i could play it for hours... but with no online it wasnt the same.
Now with 2010, i am scared that this laggyness when passing is going to be part of the final code. It feels like what fifa felt like which i hated.
What do you guys think?
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- PSN: bolivianfuego
I do notice a huge difference with Fifa where there is absolutely no delay with instantaneous passes and shots in any direction being played which makes the game play alot faster but also makes it easier as you can just bash away at the pass button without much thought and make good fast passes everytime.
Konami is trying to incorporate the fact that players often need to change their body position or move the ball to their stronger foot before they can make a pass/shot/cross which should add to the realism and I think it is a good idea and not necessarily a flaw at all.
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Yea, the game just feels more 'stiff' and the dribbling seems delayed, like my step overs sometimes go too long when i want my guy to move as i a approach a defender to go to the side of him, instead he runs into him still doing step overs, for instance this happens with messi.
And personally, with close style passing it should be quick and easy, as the style i play in real life is the short passing, latin american style, which IMO how i play it takes just a little flick or rebound off my foot to get the ball where i want it to peple that are like maybe a couple feet away from me. I used to get this satifying style of passing in the old PS2 games, but now that feeling is gone, and passing is just so stiff, and same goes with the movement of players.... Maybe thats just me though...,.
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- PSN: bolivianfuego
I've been playing PES/ISS since the very beginning (SNES) and throughout the evolution of the series there have been some up and downs. Firstly I would like to say that I love the game but over the last few years my loyalty has been severely tested and this year will be the first that I buy FIFA instead of PES. I felt that since PES 2008 the game has taken a direction that I can no longer agree with. For too long it feels as though Konami just expected their loyal fan base to buy whatever they threw at us regardless of how cheap and reworked their new product may have seemed, and to a degree this has happened. Many people just count themselves as PES to the core and that means they just buy PES regardless of what happens. I was one of those people, but no longer. The following will explain why I'm making the decision to purchase FIFA 2010 over PES 2010.
Firstly, there are a number of problems which remain embedded in each PES game since PES 6.
1). Pathfinding issues : Passes and shots are restricted to pre-set ball paths which means there is lack of user-control of the ball.
2). Advantage play : Where your team play exceptionally well for a while then after a period of time they then begin to play really badly with the opposition gaining the 'advantage' for an allocated period of time. During the period of negative advantage things seem really unfair, balls will deflect wickedly out of favor, your players will seem sluggish. To add to this the controls will also fail at times (run ability doesn't work momentarily to allow 'catch-up' etc). This despondency can often lead to players running into one another (I call this the 'Keystone cops' period), pass opportunities are severly restricted and your players don't move into space. Changes in pace will also occur, slow players by default are suddenly able to outrun faster players. Overall, most of these issues result in you losing the ball, through no fault of the user.
3). Automated player behavior : This problem has only crept into the series since PES 2008 but is growing with each addition. This involves players doing their own thing, whether it be slide tackles you never made, clearances that you had no control over (i.e. You didn't press the button yet the player in your control kicks the ball out of touch), little touches and tricks that are completely out of user-control (i.e. Players taking extra touches of the ball when you have not executed any such command). This usually results in the user losing the ball, again through no fault of the user.
The other changes made to the game, i.e. interface, etc, to me are not important, having an interface or glossy graphics or having the proper keeper kits are trivial in comparison to the above. Why should these be important if the game isn't good?
On the whole, I feel that with each new addition to the the series user-control is slowly diminishing to the point where it is not so much your skill that enables you to win but rather the 'advantage' output. When I play a game I want 100% control over what I do, I don't want the computer making choices for me when I have not issued any such command.
It gets tiring to play people who are not as good but are nevertheless presented with goal-scoring opportunities via no fault of the better player. I know why Konami do this (to give everyone a chance) but in fairness this lack of total user-control added with the problem of advantage play is something that I felt should have been taken out of the game a long time ago, sadly it remains as strong if not stronger than ever.
Don't get me wrong I loved the series up until PES 2009, but the game is taking a direction that I can no longer agree with, Konami seem more occupied with the aesthetics of the game than the actual gameplay, which is tragic because FIFA are doing the complete opposite. Over the years FIFA have paid attention and tried hard to make positive changes, but in the past PES gameplay would always triumph. Konami's newfound infatuation with trying to compete with FIFA in this area is silly because its clear the gameplay has suffered. If I remember correctly, Electronic Arts (FIFA) was always good at delivering strong interfaces and intros with all the added whistles and bells but the actual game itself would be poor. While Konami (PES) on the other hand, would be the opposite, employing cheap looking interfaces with no licensing etc, but the important thing was that the gameplay would always be far superior. Now this trend has all but faded and there has been a complete turnaround with Konami now occupying themselves with creating new interfaces and glossy graphics however at the expense of gamplay, whereas FIFA (already good at the visual gloss) have made serious changes to their games' gameplay. I haven't played/bought FIFA 2010 yet, but from what I hear from some of my most hardcore PES friends who have played PES 2010, they tell me that its brilliant compared to the new PES 2010 stating that the things which normally make a FIFA poor have been removed.
Thanks Konami for all the years of fun....
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As with every new version,I was like a little kid on Xmas eve,ran down the stairs,opened it,lobbed it in the PS3,got straight online...
First impressions were "this is amazing,no more lag,its all smooth,they've finally done it!"
Then I started trying to actually play it,and it was DIABOLICAL.
I've been playing Pro Evo/ISS for donkeys,and when the PS3,the idea of playing online excited me greatly,but its been pi$$ poor fro the word go!
At least in previous next gen versions,you could play it online,I mean there was lag,but you could play throuhg it,and occasionally you would get a nice smmoth game (depending on connection to your opponent).
But this new response issue is ridiculous,it makes the game unplayable.You can't control your players,you constantly run off the pitch,you can't do any first time shots/passes.You just can't play it.
As soon as I realised this issue was nothing that I could work around,I did the unthinkable...yes...I traded it for FIFA.
The game wasn't due to be released for another day,but I got rid of it.I'm bored of playing Master League just because the online mode is pathetic!
FIFA is good,but Pro Evo is a better game offline.Offline its a perfect football game IMO.But if I wanted to play offline all the time,I should have never got rid of my PSOne!
I'm desperately hoping that Konami fix this,but as with previous versions,they promise to fix alot of things...
COME ON KONAMI,LOOK WHAT YOU DROVE ME TO!I AM JUDAS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FIX YOUR ONLINE ISSUES!
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but after playing the game for about one week , i discovered that that response issues are still there , they are just hidden but the more i play the more i notice them
konami couldn't fix the response issues that were marked in the demo due to the new motion capture systems but instead of solving such issues they increased the speed of the game to just cover and hide them away from ur eyes but they still there
the most item that make these response issues shiny and welll marked are :
1-the one touch passes
2-the 1st time shoots
u can NOT do a one touch pass in pes 2010 unless u pressed the pass button very early while the ball in its way from the 1st player to the second one
BUT if the distance between the 2 players is too small , and suddenly the u see the ball toward the second player it will be impossible to do a one touch pass or one touch shoot (if in front of the goal) so that the player will do an inevitable one EXTRA touch before doing any pass or shoot action
yesterday i did a quich comparison between pes 2010 , pes 2009 and fifa 2009 and the results were really disappointing
although i don't like fifa at all , but i find the response times in fifa were amazing so that i could perform a one touch pass by pressing the button even when the ball is about to reach the 2nd player
also in pes 2009 the response times were excellent and very slightly below fifa 2009
but in pes 2010 the results were so bad
i performed the above tests with different resolutions and i triend to exclude the fast pace of the game that are highly masking the response issue that are hiding inside
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Tackles coming in from opponent, 90% you will fall even when you are never near him, you will run towards the leg and fall, allowing opponent to regain possession, and surprisingly, the opponent recovers faster than you do, but not the other case when you initiate the tackle. Tackles are attempted near the side lines, you fall balls goes out you fall. it is not a foul however the ball possession is given to the opponent. So if the opponent did not get the ball and you had the last touch ... CLEARLY IS A FOUL, HE CAUGHT THE PLAYER AND NOT THE BALL, why is the possession given to the opponent?
Be realistic, when you are running towards the penalty box, 5 players will be with you trying to catch you, that is crazy then you cant stop because possession will be lost or a slide tackle will come in and you will fall.
There is hard chance you can show some creativity in the game because you will get the tackle too easy for them. they recover faster than you do. Players just don’t react to the loose ball and standing looking at it, the change cursor button doesn’t work in the situation at all. in the end the opponent will come collecting the ball... what a joke.
Each button you tap, is the trigger of the next move of the opponent. you pass they react , non of them happen to caught surprise pass.
Apart from the graphics, it is a frustrating game
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Even player changing should be the same.
Improve animations and cut scenes. VERY IMPORTANT. No more robots.
A new engine should be developed that will raise the bar even higher. Not just for graphics but also animations. look at Madden, fifa, gta4, Assassins Creed 2. the collisions in Madden are awesome. No 2 collisions are alike n some stuff the game simulates is out of this world awesome. The ball physics should not change, I think its the best its ever been. Love the set pieces, they are fantastic, u fixed the problem that was in previous pes games: they were inconsistent and hard to predict where to face,for instance when taking a Free kick.
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I would love to see a KONAMI Store on psn with an exclusive area for PES fans n owners,(even Mgs4) where fans can vote, chat, trade option files and edited items, download clips of their favorite clubs to add to the gallery section of the game, infact it shoulf be the KONAMI MALL so i can get DLC such as boots, crated kits, a better "Edit" software for pes which can be used to edit anything in pes.
They should borrow ideas from FORZA MOTORSPORT 3 & 4. the maner and depth with which players can edit and create designs is fantastic .
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