FSB Podcast Discussion

[MeTaLL]

Very good podcast. Covered a lot of what was on my mind as well and thankfully took off some steam in me about the game. (Xbox360 FIFA 10 owner).

I also kind of feel the same way, the game is good, playable and great in certain instances during gameplay but like you say certain issues that seem simple to fix (or not to have in the 1st place after "intensive presale testing " like weather, number of subs, lack of atmosphere as far as volume of fan chants/emotions during proper moments go, stadiums, lack of fans in stadiums during big games and so forth is something for me as a fan of eye/ear candy and visual detail, queit irritating to still see.

Though ive never been an owner of pes i do keep track of whats going on there and at least for this last version i can say that the players at least look quiet amazing (i mistakenly thought on some website that there was a picture of comparison photos between on left Rooney in real life and right Rooney in FIFA 10 while the left one was actually pes10 pic..). Many other players look well and better then FIFA 10 versions too. Now im not saying im switching for pes here but i would think FIFA EA would have more resources, cash and board support to make the game look much better in instances of player faces and in-game things like little animations here and there that make the game look and feel more authentic.
The point is that FIFA is still using the same animations for players coming on field, substitution moments, end game moments, animation celebrations as i dunno how many years before. Though as you pointed and i agree that game play is no good but damn do i wish FIFA's players and the start/during game animations looked as well as PES's...That would elevate atmosphere so much, and maybe make us forget those other fifa nuisances a little. I mean when the game starts the camera goes round players then the 2 players starting the kick off are filmed like on tv close up, then substitutions look authentic and quiet cool, the goal celebrations are more real and proper looking and so on. Why cant we have that instead of the same old, maybe sliiiightly reworked same old.
Then another thing that boils MY head is the ridiculous non inclusion of the Russian league.....The Russian football union and EA signed a deal ages before release that Russian league will be in FIFA 10 and agreed that this is good for football and russian football and it will increase the popularity of it. And then they release it for PC and Ps2 only...wheres the logic there...EA said something like they didnt have time to put it in...WELL u had time to put it in PC AND PS2!! Why start there then..? I mean thank god they made a deal with Netherlands finally which was a surprise but something that was signed, agreed on and preplanned is suddenly released half-ass? (Theres a petition out there by the way to sign for having the Russian league as free or more likely not free DLC but you know EA..)

So the game is released with bugs (again), a league promised isnt there, the patch fixes 2% of problems most of which noone cares about (like statistics maybe or something) and now they say no more solid patchs/fixes/updates for the time being..all that and it hasnt even been a month since release in Europe or week in case of USA. (did i mention all in game animations like start game, subbing, celbrations are (mostly) same and boring and games feel atmosphere-less due to half empty stadiums and fans not chanting hard enough or not where appropriate? )

So yeah, your podcast was so on the spot i had to pour this out but it feels better to share the shared view, so now back to FIFA 10 manager mode and be a pro seasons where my virtual pro looks like an asian/mongolian female in addition to not looking human, having a pancake face (though i adjusted it on the website editor and strangely cant adjust face features in-game yet..how convenient and logical..) and being half dead in the eyes (while i opened my eyes on the photo as wide as humanly possible and tried 5 times to reupload/readjust/change photos with similar or more than unsatisfying results), while im a caucasian male with defined face features and average eyes who looks great at the end of game face beta - (whoopty doo.. game is out but this is beta yay!) face generation and also EA FIFA website and in-game avatar, but not in the game itself as a virtual pro

Regards,

[VANBASTEN10]

Good podcast chris I still dont know if to buy pes 2010 yet been told some good things about it but also some real bad things :s Mite just buy borderlands

[SmittyDRS1]

Good podcast chris, agree we most of what you say, i love the gameplay and I'm enjoying manager mode despite the bugs, the thing I'm wondering is What the Fifa 10 development teams reaction to the feedback about the bugs is do they acknowledge that it's pretty much not acceptable to have that many bugs in a game especially from a company as big as EA or is their no such comment. I know there is time constraints but surely they could release the game later just To iron Out bugs an things. I don't know maybe there isn't any flexibility in the release date but it's just a shame really. My other issue is being disconnected from the EA servers, I don't understand it, it keeps saying I have low connection, I carnt use live season or upload videos because everytime I load up a game mode i get disconnected I don't get It I played over 1000 online games on FIFA 09 and not once did I have a problem like this. Does anyone know why am having this problem because it's really frustrating.

[Nanny]

Im really confused because i have not even had half of these issues that chris has spoken about, if that squad update comes around i really wont have a single issue with MM or FIFA. Well obviously there are a few things id like in FIFA 11 but FIFA 10 will basically be complete for me when this squad update comes around

[Viniero09]

Nice poddy Chirs.... The way i look at it is that its a shame for EA a company with abundant resources to release a poorly tested game... Dont get me wrong Fifa 10 - the game it could be- would be one of the best ever football games... it really has all the things needed... However i still feel that the gold is still up for grabs and both games are vying for the silver... Like Chris mentioned it is the ideal time for a third party to come in and take advantage of the current market because both games have elements that if combined could lead to a solid game... i hope the squad file fixes the bundesliga and other leagues as well..

[Nanny]

Nice poddy Chirs.... The way i look at it is that its a shame for EA a company with abundant resources to release a poorly tested game... Dont get me wrong Fifa 10 - the game it could be- would be one of the best ever football games... it really has all the things needed... However i still feel that the gold is still up for grabs and both games are vying for the silver... Like Chris mentioned it is the ideal time for a third party to come in and take advantage of the current market because both games have elements that if combined could lead to a solid game... i hope the squad file fixes the bundesliga and other leagues as well..

issues are that sports games are best after years of development, so the 1st year of a new sports game is very tuff

edit: Chris any word on when that squad file update will hit, im hesitant to start a new MM without it.

[lil_raze]

Good podcast Chris.

Have to disagree with some of your points regarding PES though, you said that on top player all cpu teams pass it around too well, and that the level below you win 6 or 7 - 0. Are you sure about this? The level below top player is Professional and it is very difficult to win by that much in a 10 minute match with even teams. I and many others find that the cpu plays a much more varied game on professional than on top player.

Also you said that all the goals you scored are long rangers, maybe so but to say that you can't score different types of goals is simply not true. You can score various different types of goals on PES2010, maybe you need to spend more time with the game.

I'm not a fanboy of any of the games, I used to play all fifa's on the megadrive and then all Iss/PES on PS1 and PS2. Last year i bought Fifa 09 as I was unhappy with pes 2008 and this year I was more impressed with the pes demo than fifa's so I bought pes 2010. For me personally I initially enjoyed fifa 09 but then got bored after 3-4 months as all games were the same. Personally I never had this feeling on pes before pes2008.

You said that you've never liked Master League, I do find that a bit odd. Most people love ML, me included, it's had annoyances don't get me wrong like fake currencies etc but the whole concept of taking my team of know hopers and turning them into world beaters took gaming addiction to a whole new level for me

[lil_raze]

One thing that I think you're 100% correct on though, and that is a serious 3rd party is needed to come in and compete with Konami and EA, the major problem though, which actually hurts us, the gamers, is the licensing issue. EA have the monopoly and personally I think it's unfair. It would be much better for us gamers if this wasn't the case. I would love for both EA and Konami to have the CL and Europa licenses, EPL licenses, etc

[Ratinho]

Im really confused because i have not even had half of these issues that chris has spoken about, if that squad update comes around i really wont have a single issue with MM or FIFA. Well obviously there are a few things id like in FIFA 11 but FIFA 10 will basically be complete for me when this squad update comes around

You're not the only one mate. I keep seeing all these issues being talked about, and the only one i've come across so far is the number of games played in rainy conditions in the Premiership. In reality, having seen this list of 70~ 'bugs' only a handful are actual bugs, and the lists seemed to turn into a small bunch of guys on the EA forums basically gathering everything they didn't like together and calling it a bug. There are bugs of course, but the problems are not on the scale some like to talk about.

I love Master League BUT the gameplay is so far behind in PES now. The clunky engine chugs along and is just a chore compared to Fifa's, especially in the dribbling that just feels archaic and has so much less freedom. And the variation between teams.....well i was one of those who talked this side of PES up in the past, but having played a good half season of ML the sides in the Prem ALL played a passing game, just at different levels of quickness depending on quality of team.

When our mates at WENB (meant with no sarcasm, Adam and Suff are top blokes) are talking about the gameplay in PES being a 7.5 this year, i think they are spot on. It's a good PES game and reminds me a lot of PES5 but EA's new engine has moved a long way past that now. And having obsessively played and owned every version of PES and WE imported up until PES 2009, i like to think i know my stuff.

I enjoy PES 2010. It's just not as good as Fifa 10. And i keep seeing people saying 'well Fifa might be more realistic but PES is more fun and pick up and play'. Funny that, as when PES was the best game by a mile and people used to argue about Fifa being more fun and arcadey, we used to say 'well PES is so much more realistic and fun to play'. When Fifa looked better but PES had the far better animations, we rightly said graphics were much less important and the animations are what made the game flow right and feel less scripted......now it's the other way round, people try and tell me the graphics are important after all.

[didgeHague]

Hate master league? Want to play as a different team eventually? Why don't you play football manager or something if you want to manage different teams...Master League is brilliant for what it is.
Pro evo lets you score the goals you want...can you score long range goals on Fifa?
I have played fifa, was initially impressed with passing but who wants to pass the ball with same accuracy with every single player?

[didgeHague]

Sorry for previous post was just a bit annoyed. Its just funny how on the podcast you were mentioning the word hope in relation to manager mode...its the exact same mind set I had when I was waiting for pro evo's online to be improved.
In terms of pro evo being the less realistic game, the same thing could easily be said about Fifa in terms of individuality and ball physics. What it boils down to is a feel for the game...I prefer how Pes feels when I'm playing it..granted the graphics are better this year but I've never bought Pes for the graphics (nor its animations!) but for how I can best express myself on the football field with a set of players.
The feeling I got when playing Fifa was that each player I was controlling was me (not the actual player), so if I wanted to pass a certain way I could, but the players stats didn't seem to effect the outcome. I don't play football games so I can play with a field of mini-me's I play so I can control the likes of gerrard or torres and feel like its actually those players on the pitch in front of me...but thats my preference

[Ratinho]

Hate master league? Want to play as a different team eventually? Why don't you play football manager or something if you want to manage different teams...Master League is brilliant for what it is.
Pro evo lets you score the goals you want...can you score long range goals on Fifa?
I have played fifa, was initially impressed with passing but who wants to pass the ball with same accuracy with every single player?

You realise none of that makes sense right?

There's plenty of criticism to level at Fifa, there's plenty wrong with it. The passing, shooting and fact you can actually have a management career in manager mode (it's not the same as Master League mate, everyone knows that) aren't the things to pick out as issues. The criticism of the long shots suggests you haven't played the latest version.

It's Chris' opinion. People need to understand that a little better.

[Gari14]

Great podcast Chris.

With regards to your comments about PES 2010, although i really do enjoy PES 2010 on a whole, i totally agree with what you was saying about the way teams play when on the highest difficulty setting. The amount of times that ive just had to sit back while a team has passed the ball around for god knows how long and no matter what i do, i cant get the ball back is bloody annoying. Its actually got to a point now where i just cant be bothered to press them and i basically just sit back and wait till i have at least a chance of tackling them to get the ball back and this in turn, leads to a very frustrating experience.

[VANBASTEN10]

Great podcast Chris.

With regards to your comments about PES 2010, although i really do enjoy PES 2010 on a whole, i totally agree with what you was saying about the way teams play when on the highest difficulty setting. The amount of times that ive just had to sit back while a team has passed the ball around for god knows how long and no matter what i do, i cant get the ball back is bloody annoying. Its actually got to a point now where i just cant be bothered to press them and i basically just sit back and wait till i have at least a chance of tackling them to get the ball back and this in turn, leads to a very frustrating experience.

Dont think this is a new thing with pes. The last couple of pes games i have played, playing on a high level the cpu team just keep the ball for god know show long passing it around for ages

[didgeHague]

Hate master league? Want to play as a different team eventually? Why don't you play football manager or something if you want to manage different teams...Master League is brilliant for what it is.
Pro evo lets you score the goals you want...can you score long range goals on Fifa?
I have played fifa, was initially impressed with passing but who wants to pass the ball with same accuracy with every single player?

You realise none of that makes sense right?

There's plenty of criticism to level at Fifa, there's plenty wrong with it. The passing, shooting and fact you can actually have a management career in manager mode (it's not the same as Master League mate, everyone knows that) aren't the things to pick out as issues. The criticism of the long shots suggests you haven't played the latest version.

It's Chris' opinion. People need to understand that a little better.

Well that was my opinion....

It all makes sense...granted the amount of rhetorical questions makes it harder to follow but I was annoyed. Pointed that out in my next post.
I have played the latest version...played it to death over the course of a few weeks in hmv. Also played the demo. In my opinion the demo was a better game...I actually hit the cross bar a few times with long range shots. When it came to playing the full version I knew that every single time I would try to shoot from range it would go high/wide or the keeper would catch it.

[moeom]

I have much to say, but i have to say, it was a very good PodCast. Love your honesty and i can relate to all you concerns about both games. Even though i havn't played the full PES 2010 game yet, i have played a few FIFA 10 matches thus far.

Fifa 10 has its ups and has many downs as well. You know that, you talked about it and many others know that too. PES 2010's problems arn't as big as many think, just like FIFA 10. I agree on one of you comments where you said both games have switched roles. But i still think that PES is closer to making the better game that what it seems. Fifa on the other hand, need to get their 'outside' of the game done correctly while PES has 'gameplay' issues to get fixed. For example the animations. The animations themselvs arnt the problem though, its the movement of the animations and everything else around. I like to say fluidity of the game in general is lacking unlike FIFA 10 where you feel the freedome of the player's 'body' and the ball trajectory. Though i think the ball needs some work in FIFA.

The thing is that we could compare both games all day long, We can find problems all day long for both games. The PES gameplay isn't bad, its just dated. FIFA's gameplay is improved. In the end though, many of the fans will go back to what they feel more confortable with. I will surely play both games for a good time before making my final decision on which one is better as from the demo, i give both games 8/10. Maybe the MM and Master League will be the final deciding point though, even though the gameplay might be outdated. Even though outdated though, I still feel at home once i pick up the controller.

This will keep going if i dont stop though, as both games bring new things to the table, while many features of the game frustrate me for the simple reason of having a feature in the game in the old gen and then taking them off in the new gen. That is a big why?

I like how you mentioned in the PodCast that the videogame industry will need a 3rd party to make new football games to shake up these two big giants just as PES did to FIFA back in the days. Only time will tell if a new gaming company is will to go into a 3-way brawl for supremacy. When someone before mentioned it will be wrong for us, gamers, that the '3rd Party' might not have the licenses, that is indeed the wrong issue to think about. As the Licenses will follow the game. Sports franchise in videogames will never get a license after their first outing unless they are a known company like 2k for exemple.

[Schumi]

The only way for a third party to create a great football-game is to attract emplloyees of both EA and Konami. You need the basic know-how. And they'll probably have a non-disclosure-clause in their contracts, so I personally don't think it will be possible to make a football-game. You never know though...

[Viniero09]

I think EA have it easier as they have already reinvented the wheel... so they just need to tweak the gameplay and add the bells and whistles like better graphics, better player models, more faces, better faces, kits and more licenses esp in the rest of the world section... Also the more editing options and the integration of the proper format for the UCL and UEL... and above all a better and more realistic AI logic.. it is a lot of work but they have a year to go so get cracking EA..

[Steve67]

I think EA have it easier as they have already reinvented the wheel... so they just need to tweak the gameplay and add the bells and whistles like better graphics, better player models, more faces, better faces, kits and more licenses esp in the rest of the world section... Also the more editing options and the integration of the proper format for the UCL and UEL... and above all a better and more realistic AI logic.. it is a lot of work but they have a year to go so get cracking EA..

Totally agree, If EA add a few more cosmetic things (main one being better net animations with tilt like PES and also camera keeping up with ball flight and stadiums closer to pitches also like PES) then we will be looking at a great game. To be fair, the gameplay is pretty dam good as it is and if EA fix the numerous bugs with a patch then this years game will be a success!

[WILDSTER180774]

Poddy coming soon Chris?